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Mixing politics and witchcraft

Mixing politics and witchcraft

Buyekezwa Makwabe

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1047120

Published:Aug 08, 2009

... Williams said the rights groups were being “arrogant”. He said self-defined witches should be sensitive to the majority of South Africans and their beliefs. “Go to Limpopo and declare that you’re a witch and see how long you survive,” he said. Asked to comment on the Witchcraft Suppression Act, he said: “It does not undermine any right except the right to define yourself.

“I just think it’s very arrogant of white pagans in South Africa to push for rights they know will be detrimental to the majority. It would be ideal if we could change the perception of what witchcraft is.”

http://www.thetimes.co.za/News/Article.aspx?id=1047120

Witches will never relinquish our constitutional right

Witches will never relinquish our constitutional right to freedom of religion.

http://www.paganrightsalliance.org/press.html

Mpumalanga ANC MP Adrian Williams has accused the South African Pagan Rights Alliance of being arrogant in pursuing the reclamation of the terms Witch and Witchcraft.

Adrian Williams has not been elected by South African Witches and has no mandate to speak on behalf of Witches or Witchcraft in South Africa.

It should be noted that Adrian Williams supported the 2007 Mpumalanga Witchcraft Suppression Bill and is opposed to repealing the 1957 Witchcraft Suppression Act. In October 2007 Mpumalanga ANC MP Adrian Williams, after having relinquished his right to call himself a Witch, swore to have the words 'Witch' and 'Witchcraft' banned in South Africa.

No person has the right to perpetrate acts of violence against another on the basis of their cultural or religious beliefs. No person is guilty of practising Witchcraft (whether for harm or good) on the basis of an accusation. Accusations of bewitchment are not based on sound evidence or fact, but are motivated through fear, superstition, jealousy, envy and spite. Any and all cultural and religious beliefs that portray Witches as inherently evil and portray Witchcraft as a danger to society are based on historically constructed superstitions and deliberately constructed propaganda.

The only real Witches in Africa are those (whether white or black-skinned) who actually claim to be Witches. We Witches will NEVER relinquish our right to call ourselves Witches.

The South African Pagan Rights Alliance advises Mr. Williams to refrain from dictating religious policy to South African citizens who are Witches and who seek to exercise their constitutional right to freedom of religion.

SAPRA

Sunday Times

The Sunday Times appears to be denying us the right to respond to allegations made by Williams.

Morgause's picture

I SAY

Let us given them carrots, Damon! This is unacceptable!

BB
Morgause
SAPC Registrar

Charles's picture

Something is afoot...

The South African Legal Gunowners Association (SALGO) has been trying to refute a Sunday Times article wherein the reporter allowed Mac Maharaj to sidestep and camouflage the issue of how many TONNES of armaments (AK47's, ammunition, etc.) the ANC still has in its possession (smuggled in before 1994), and refuses to licence or hand over - and the Sunday Times, to date, has refused to publish a single refutation of the bluster Mac hoodwinked their reporter with...

Something is rotten in the state of free speech...

rotten

The reporter tried to allay my initial hesitancy in participating, when I heard that the article would feature Williams, by saying "this will start a debate". Well, a one-sided interview is not a debate and declining to publish responses to the original interview makes me think the editor never had any intention of permitting debate on this subject.

I have been told that the editor is a member of the SA Communist Party. I don't know if this is true, but if it is, it makes sense.

wotanwulf's picture

AND...

The plot sickens

wotanwulf's picture

This blows bigtime!

Who in the nine worlds does this political-type "Hvitar" think he is? If I wanted to relinquish the word Witch I would have spoken for myself, thank you. If this white-liver politician thinks he can gain himself some fame, he better not do it at my expense. Gosh, like I am not fed up enough as it is with this Geldings, now one of them claims to be a witch(or non-witch, for that matter) Can't we stop this somehow, before we end up with our fingers in the proverbial?

FF

Luke Martin's picture

AVANTI!!!

Dear Wotanwulf
As is the case with all traitors, they are their own worst enemy.

If Adrian Williams were not blinded by delusion and self-agrandizement, he would consider the damage and harm his selfish, illogical, hypocritical, uncompassionate statements will cause. However, as is often the case with those blinded by their own false sense of self-importance, there are those who see through their miserable lies and selfish agendas.

The Williams quote below shows the kind of problem which could be facing us:

"...the Constitution is not the supreme law in this country - the will of the majority is the supreme law. And me and 40 million blacks will do what we like - you had better get used to it, and relax into the pain..." Adrian Williams in an email to Charles of the SAPC.

It does not surprise me that Adrian Williams does not care what every other Pagan feels or thinks in this country. This seems to be the general rule for all those who aspire to positions of power. However, the 40 million, whom Williams claims to represent, are waking up to the likes of he. This is evidenced by the mounting uprisings and demonstrations we are seeing across communities in South Africa.

Those of us who are committed to the Melville Mandate, will indeed continue with our fight/struggle in order to stop the injustice, for the good of all, Blacks and Whites, to the exclusion of none, and for the freedom of all.

Avanti!
BB
Aurelius

Erebos's picture

CLAIMING OUR RIGHT

When Mr Adrian Williams was asked to comment on the Witchcraft Suppression Act, he said: “It does not undermine any right except the right to define yourself.”

I think that he misses the point entirely.

This whole issue is about defining oneself, and the right and choice to do just that.

I define myself as Pagan; will he (or someone else) one day attempt to take that away from me because the term Pagan may be “highly offensive to the vast majority of people in this country”?

It is indeed true that the term “Witch” has been used in a negative way throughout much of modern history in most parts of the world, however, any attempt to ban its usage will merely be a continuance of a mind-set based on, and feeding off, ignorance.

Denying the word due to real or perceived cultural and linguistic differences, and whether attempts to ban the term are in turn in the best interest of specific groups (at the cost of others), or merely based on self-interest (once again at the cost of others), will do nothing to dispel existing misunderstandings, misinformation and disinformation.

Although the argument for/against the use of the term “Witch” does affect the right to self-definition and although there may indeed be conceptual gaps between African and European traditions, what really worries me goes far beyond that.

I fear that there is a very real danger that any attempt to “ban” the term “Witch” will in fact give credence to erroneous beliefs which exist, and further encourage suspicion and violence in/by all affected communities.

Because of that I believe that any, and all, “anti-Witch campaigns” should be strongly opposed by all Pagans as a united front, whether they are Witches or not.

What we need is a campaign to inform communities in SA so that we can indeed change the perception of what Witchcraft is not, and inform all people about what Witchcraft is. We do not need denial, what we need is education.

As a MP and as a “pagan” Mr Williams is in fact missing a golden opportunity to do just that. As Mr Williams said: “It would be ideal if we could change the perception of what Witchcraft is.” Just a shame that this does not seem to be his ideal.

Luckily for many of us, it is our ideal.

“The word ‘Witch’ carries so many negative connotations that many people wonder why we use the word at all. Yet to reclaim the word ‘Witch’ is to reclaim our right, as women, to be powerful; as men, to know the feminine within as divine.” - Starhawk

Hear hear

Well said Erebos.

wotanwulf's picture

a very good point,

and well said, Erebos. However, as an expert in media and communications, how would you lay out and implement such a campaign?
Such a project might be more important than most of us are realizing right now. I am with you on this one, thanks!

FF

Erebos's picture

LET'S WALK LIGHTLY

As Pagans there is no doubt whatsoever that we do have the right to define ourselves and no one should be allowed to even attempt to take this right away, however, perhaps we should take a few deep breaths and think about a few things before we think CAMPAIGN.

Personal responsibility is at the focal point of our lives and choices, and we should not allow this issue to get out of control and remember at all times that our conscience is our guide to what is wise, good and beneficial to ourselves and the larger whole.

Before any plan of action can be decided on, we should decide what this dispute is really about. It is our responsibility to act responsibly and not compulsively.

Is this a battle to assure and defend our rights, or has it now become an action against someone? We must not make this a personal clash – although in this case it is understandable and deserved. We must decide whether we are fighting FOR something or AGAINST someone.

By allowing personal feelings to get in the way, are we perhaps not giving Mr Adrian Williams more credibility than deserved, and are we not in fact fuelling a debate that would have merely dissipated had it been given less credence and publicity. Have we not merely stepped into a “public debate trap" set by Mr Williams?

Think about it – is Mr Williams really in any position to make good on his threats? Are we perhaps strengthening his hand by giving the impression that he is the one under siege? Are we busy making him look like the victim - if so what does that make us look like?

"Patience and perseverance have a magical effect before which difficulties disappear and obstacles vanish." - John Quincy Adams

wotanwulf's picture

That is good, Erebos

But could we not turn this situation around to be of a more positive nature? Instead of going on a vermin-hunt, can't we rather use this situation somehow as a means to education which would further our cause, or am I out in the first round here?

FF

Erebos's picture

WITHOUT A DOUBT YES

Yes, we could and should turn it around and use it to educate.

public debate is a good thing

I have found the last three days a good exercise in promoting reclamation on a few public forums. From many responses on several forums I see a willingness to look at the issue critically. Better than ignoring it. I also see a recognition and acceptance, by most who have participated in discussion and debate, of the importance of the right to self-identity.

Reclaimers - 1 / ANC MP - 0

:-)

wotanwulf's picture

thanks, man!

any practical ideas on what we can do? Like I said, you are the expert here:)

Charles's picture

Let's define Insanity for the purposes of this discussion:

Practically, we can define insanity as doing the same thing over, and over, and over - and expecting it to have a different outcome.

People have spoken nicely to Adrian many, many times now. He hasn't listened.

People have tried to reason with Adrian many, many times. He has never considered any other point of view but his own, blinkered, propaganda soundbyte viewpoint, EVER!

As we used to say in the army - Lead or Follow, just get out of the way!

I've said the following to Pagans often - but the idea just never seems to get through. Let me try again: This walk-lightly, diplomatic approach is what got the Jews into the gas chambers in Nazi Germany. It's what has more recently led to thousands of Zimbabweans dying of hunger or just murdered at the hands of Zanu-PF's thugs. The Muslim approach works - just you try insulting the Qu'ran and see what happens to you and yours. The Muslims fight fire with fire - and I don't see a single letter in the newspapers taking the p1ss out of Muslims (but plenty doing so about Pagans and xtians). I don't see anybody daring to openly insult the Muslims - but I see lots of them squaring up to the Pagans and xtians. And what is the lesson? Being passive little sheep, standing nicely so that the cannons don't have to work too hard to hit us, isn't going to contribute to us gaining respect out there, it isn't going to protect even ONE of our number out there, and it's never going to make anybody proud to say "Gee, look at that, the Pagans got their butts WHIPPED again in the press and they didn't do a THING about it!".

However, if you have principles, and you have honour, and you are prepared to stand up for what you believe in, rather than turn the other cheek and submit meekly to whatever Adrian and company have in store for you, then you've heard the call to battle right here on this forum.

Erebos's picture

RE: Let's define Insanity for the purposes of this discussion

Charles,

You say: “So attempting to negotiate with him, or trying to talk to him, or trying to reason with him - these are all insane actions. Nothing will change, and pursuing the 'tread lightly' and diplomatic approach is a waste of time, an exercise in futility, and a demonstration of insanity.”

I do not think that I mentioned anything about negotiating, talking or reasoning with Mr Adrian Williams. What I did say was that we should decide what this dispute is really about, and make sure that this is a battle to defend our right to self-identify.

Waging what seems to be a personality war instead of tackling the real issue at hand (the right by some Pagans to identify themselves as Witches) can never be the correct course of action - even when this is a direct result of somebody else’s actions against the SAPC as a whole.
:)

BB

Charles's picture

Jack, old chap...

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Erebos's picture

:)

Removed all dirty laundry.

Can I expect you to do the same?

:)

BB

Charles's picture

Of course...

Now it's just the ironing!

:-)

snoozy

I appreciate your brutal honesty Charles.

I have sent several press releases to various newspapers, including the Sunday Times.

Let's see if they get published?!

Like you I believe we need to adopt the same approach that the Jewish and Muslim religious orgs have adopted with the press - take no prisoners.

But, editors decide. MP's are newsworthy - religious activists are not as news-worthy.

wotanwulf's picture

Charles...

Do you not get the idea that too much is being said in a forum, that could have been said somewhere else? Is it just me or do others also get the feeling that we are talking in circles here? (If I may presume, Your latest piece shows that you share my fears here) My open question is this, whatever the intended action is, are we going to keep it in this discussion group like a bunch of proffies in a study group, or is this actually going somewhere?

FF

Morgause's picture

I'm sorry to interject

Wotanwulf ... the founders of the SAPC and some of those involved in this discussion have been the very people who have "battled and conquered rights" for you, me and every other Pagan in the country.

Trust me. At the SAPC/SAPRA things get done and go somewhere ... every time.

BB
SAPC Registrar

wotanwulf's picture

Noted, Morgause:)

I know that there are those out there who literally battle their hands to the bone, and you yourself do more than your share for the Pagan community. I just find it a bit strange that so many out there are just sitting with folded hands,looking for someone else saying"it's making that funny noise again,fix it!"

I am not assaulting those old war dogs out there, they are all worthy of my, and every other Pagan's admiration. Thanks for the reminder, though!

Til ars ok frithar, Lady

Charles's picture

Ah, my brother in arms...

As with me, the call to arms has stirred your blood, quickened your pulse, and heightened your awareness and perceptions.

Let us gather our forces, our resources, and our intellects, and thrash out the way forward: I expect, at any moment, harassment from the brave one himself, for my little piece on him. That was the intention. Get in touch with me, and we will continue this little exercise in the real world - away from the rarefied atmosphere of academia.

Valhalla awaits us!

wotanwulf's picture

Thus we shall prepare the raven feast....

Where do I get hold of you,incidentally, I do not see much of an alternative here, and if there is an alternative, doubt if I would like it very much.

Morgause's picture

REALLY Well said!

Well said, Erebos. And thank you for that final and very beautiful Starhawk quote.

I too, believe that Mr. Williams has missed the REAL opportunity to make the REAL difference here. And I ask myself why?

BB
Morgause
SAPC Registrar

Charles's picture

It's actually very simple.

As I mentioned somewhere, I've known Master Williams (seems such a misnomer to call him Mister) for almost a decade. And contrary to popular belief/opinion/perception, Adrian's intellect (such as it is) is still stuck in the sniggering little schoolboy stage. As a result, his decisions and conclusions are half-baked and immature, unseasoned with the salt of experience and logic, but most definitely pandering to the self-obsessed ego of the junior-high schoolboy that is still stuck behind that struggling excuse for a beard.

If he wasn't such a dangerously loose cannon, I'd be prompted to urge sympathy for the little jackanapes...

It can't be easy living with the knowledge, no matter how stridently you deny same, that almost everybody you have ever met thinks you're a sad little joke, and doesn't really take you seriously. Which is WHY you see little Adrian now trying to make his mark on society - you can almost hear him saying "I'll SHOW them!"

Sad, sad, sad little fellow.

wotanwulf's picture

How brave,

How worthy of respect, making statements like that while hiding behind 40 million, how awe inspiring, shame.

Charles's picture

hehehe

Wotanwulf, you don't know the HALF of it - we should really get together over a cup of coffee and I can tell you a LOT of things about our 'friend' Adrian. Bring tissues - you'll pee yourself laughing at how seriously he takes himself...

wotanwulf's picture

Sounds like a good idea,

Problem with this white-liver big mouths is the fact that other people also tend to take them seriously. That is the scary part.

ps. the other day you talked about wolves and sheepdogs...you didn't say anything about hyenas, coyotes and other backbiting critters.

Charles's picture

Sadly...

you are right - the intellectually challenged and the terminally guilt-ridden (mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!) will accept his claptrap without a second (questioning OR intelligent) thought. And these groups appear to be growing - the 'art' of independent reasoned thought appears to be dying. And it's up to people like you, me, Luke, Damon - the Sheepdogs - to try and protect our sheep... What a thankless task... But I relish the action and the appreciation of my fellow Sheepdogs.

Hear hear

I'm a greyhound, not a sheep-dog. :-) Greyhounds hunt, they don't stop short of warning... just trying to make you smile here :-)

wotanwulf's picture

let's wake up and smell the blossoms

Most of the problems that we, as a religion is experiencing in this country boils down to the fact that we are not taken seriously. whether it is by other religions or the government, we are at best treated like a bunch of seriously, if funny, misguided individuals. At worst there is always the old satanist/neo nazi wrap. The only way that I can see to change this, is by providing a unified front.

It is of no use trusting to Godfather-type politicians like our above mentioned friend. Also, in my opinion we can forget gaining anything from kow-towing to organizations like the THO, who are too busy C.Y.A.-ing for themselves.(unlike in the Pagan Council, I actually do have some connections there, and have an idea how the breeze is blowing). Honestly, we cannot allow a situation where there are two or three( or twenty) stalwarts fighting for our cause, while the rest sit and play pagan-pagan.

We keep reassuring ourselves of our so-called "rights" embedded in the constitution, but when these rights are not invoked, used and utilized it will be nothing more than mere words on a piece of paper.

We should all realize that the battles we avoid now, will come back to haunt our Pagan children one day...

FF

Charles's picture

As Obelix was wont to say:

PREZ-ACKLY!!!!!

Couldn't have put it better myself!

Yes

Agreed.

I see a sea of Pagans wearing pointy hats and marching through the streets, followed by centuries of disembodied Witches and innocents who have been murdered on accusation and belief alone.

I've been watching the debate online in a few places and I can say with certainty, many people on three continents support the right to identity and oppose any notion of a right to suppress religious freedom.

Political platforms and politicians should never be used to promote religious propaganda!

Here's to a separation of state and religion.

Charles's picture

Hear Hear, Damon!

That calls for a toast!

Prosit!

Administrator's picture

For your interest: comments

For your interest: comments from the Wild Hunt on this topic:

http://wildhunt.org/blog/2009/08/the-pagan-in-south-africas-parliament.h...

Rayne Selene's picture

Thanks for the heads up :)

Nice to see that we are not alone in this...

Again, for interests sake - this is what I posted:

# Rayne on Aug 11th 2009 at 4:17 am

To anyone who may read this, whether it be from old, sunny SA or the world-out-there…

We as Pagans in South Africa currently sit in a shadow cast by the controlled and ignorant majority. We have faced challenges before, and personally I have no room in my heart for any doubt that we will rise above the ashes once more… though the price involved is a topic for much debate.

As you see, even in the midst of battle against those who seek to destroy that which many of us have dedicated our very lives to – we find little unity amongst our own kind. And the way I see it, it will be this that cripples us as a community before any pompous, polically-flavoured twit and his massive band of mindless clones do. I could go on forever about the dangers of fighting amongst outselves while the entire population of “ordinaries” is out to nail us as well – but the point I’d like to make here is this: Live by your highest truth or die trying. I would sooner that myself and my line go to early graves in the Spirit of our convictions than to live a life of explanation. I will make my acts of daily living my demonstration. And to the empty beyond with those who do not like it. Adrian Williams is mearly a figurehead being dangled on a stick by a hidden puppet master like every single other politician. Those who are unenlightened are like moths to the flame… we as warriors being that flame.

The nail that sticks out gets hammered ~ Chinese proverb

There is no rest for the brave. My hope lies now with those who, like me, seek justice in unity. Without a wall, we cannot be well protected.

♥ R

wotanwulf's picture

I hear you, my Lady

Well said. My thoughts are this, many are speaking out on this forum, but are we enough to drown out the silence out there?

Rayne Selene's picture

It matters not

Even if the ulitmate goal of successfully declaring ourselves free to be what we are, is never attained - in our minds, as a group (if we ever manage to unite ourselves) - we will be the Pagans that hypocrites like Mr Williams only fantasises about being. At least having stood up to be counted... and even shot down and left to bleed, perhaps.

Be that as it may, I personally, will not feel any less validated if the outcome is not to our happiness. Let them come. Let them try to take it from us. Have we not all fought head on with those who "disagree"? Imagine what we can achieve if we stand together on this.

wotanwulf's picture

So speaks the true of heart!

Well said,Lady, you honor your ancestors and Gods.
Salute!

FF

Rayne Selene's picture

*tips hat*

We are strong. There is no fear here for us.
Thank you, friend.

Charles's picture

Your honor,

I rest my case.

anshsht's picture

Tut tut

Williams public dialogue is on par with that of a cowan. There's not much more to be said on the topic, yet, united we shall stand.

shoulder to shoulder

Did you happen to listen to his interview on 702 ?

anshsht's picture

Unfortunately, I did not get

Unfortunately, I did not get to hear his interview.

Rayne Selene's picture

Nice to have you on board :)

We welcome your views on the matter.