The Pagan community has a problem with leadership - it is wanted and it is needed. The increasing numbers of seekers has created an environment where there are more and more people looking for spiritual leadership and guidance, and there seems to be a huge gap between the leadership needed and what is actually available.
One of the things that set Pagan religions apart from “mainstream” religions is our lack of paid professional clergy (from the Greek kleros, “a lot”, “that which is assigned by lot”, also meaning “heritage”.) Like our diversity this can both be strength and a weakness. This issue, left unresolved for almost 60 years in most traditions, causes a great deal of friction in the Pagan community. But I think we should give the issue some reasoned consideration, and attempt to reach consensus, and if possible conclusion - which individuals and groups could support or ignore.
Pagan spiritual leadership, or clergy if you prefer, can be seen as local, regional, national, or even global — but as the arena grows, so should the standards by which we as Pagans judge the experience, competence and credibility necessary to be considered such a leader (when I speak of Pagans leaders I include all levels and variations of priestesses, priests, elders and teachers).
That said I believe that a professional spiritual guidance could provide many benefits to the Pagan community as a whole. Given our extreme diversity, we could avoid the pitfalls that other religions seem to hit when they decide on professional clergy. Paganism is a vast collection of Earth-centered belief systems. We would not need to settle on one specific arrangement for professional clergy; each tradition could choose a variant suited and based on their own requirements.
A lot of people within Paganism argue that the very idea of clergy inherently goes against Paganism and all it stands for. I do not think that to be true for as Pagans we are used to diversity and we accept differences within the community. In fact I would go as far as to say, so it seems to me, that Pagans rarely hold the same stance on a (if not any) given issue. And something utterly unacceptable in one system may prove mandatory in another – dare I mention skyclad?
SPECIALISATION
According to an article, “The Pros and Cons of Pagan Clergy”, ancient tribes followed Pagan religions at the dawn of time and the ancients lived intimately with the land and faced survival challenges each day, which probably meant that most members of any given tribe had to do a little bit of everything - no specialisation. They also most likely dealt with divinity directly. But gradually people found that specialisation did serve a purpose, in fact it made life easier.
Dealing with Divinity may even have emerged as one of the first professions (yes I do know which profession is the oldest), because people in those years were dependent on perilous hunting, unknown weather patterns and fertility, and a shaman would have, for example, been simply too valuable to risk in the hunt. In exchange for services rendered, the tribe may have contributed to the shaman’s support - possibly in the form of food, clothing, weapons, tools, etc.
With organised agriculture, communities developed and gave birth to villages, towns and much later cities, and with this human development many of the ancient religions developed a network of temples complete with priests and priestesses to run them. Their training usually took place over a period of years, and besides ministering to the people’s needs, these skilled and specialised individuals took on other important tasks, which varied according to their society (See my earlier article: In the footsteps of our ancestors).
Throughout history, and even now, the amount of spiritual work people do for their community varies greatly. Some prefer to keep their spirituality private and focus on personal and family growth, others develop one particular skill, such as divination, healing or crafting ritual tools, which they use to barter/sell for their other necessities. People may come and ask these individuals for help, and that too becomes a major part of their lives, and out of this a few of these people dedicate their entire lives to serving the gods and their immediate community.
The title of priestess/priest and elder may cover any or all of these categories depending on the tradition. Many Pagans feel that an essential quality of Paganism is that each individual can serve as priestess/priest for his or her own needs, and also serve in that capacity for anyone else who needs it. And it is indeed true that we do not require the intervention of ordained clergy to develop spiritually, but in the mundane world do we not make use of specialists? If my car, for example, has a flat I can fix that myself, however, if my car needs rewiring, I use an auto electrician. So what would be so different if I, as a Pagan, called upon a Pagan specialist (an ordained priestess/priest or elder) if I were faced with a spiritual crisis? Specialists play a vital role in society, and although we may follow the Path of the Ancients we do live in the Modern World – a world that at times tends to throw us a rather unexpected and unwelcome curve.
Anyway, the birth of professional Pagan clergy would certainly not be the death of the central idea that we are all divine and need no other to connect with that essence? This is an integral part of Paganism and this would certainly need to be integrated into a clergy framework.
I think one of the first steps, which need to be taken, is to broaden our understanding of what constitutes clergy. In Paganism, so it seems to me, it is understood that a priestess/priest to be one who conducts Pagan ritual, and little more. While people conducting the rites may be the first thing a religious community needs, surely the needs of the Pagan community go far beyond that.
THE CLERGY
So how exactly do we define professional clergy? “Profession” refers to someone’s career, and it typically involves payment, as opposed to the amateur who rarely gets paid. When people choose religious service as their life work, we call that a “vocation” or a “calling” to acknowledge its special meaning. Furthermore, professional implies “formally trained” or “highly experienced”, or both. “Official” points to recognition by some body, such as a church, coven, umbrella organisation, or even the government, and lends additional weight to the “professional” qualification.
Instituting a professional clergy does pose potential problems.
The most obvious of these is power tripping, but we already have that, so a Pagan professional clergy might on rare occasion provide a more public forum for some control freaks to make fools of themselves, but it does not introduce anything new.
Loss of individuality also looms in counter-clergy arguments, but this does not really apply to Paganism. We have so many different traditions that no single clerical order could adequately serve all traditions.
Disputes over hierarchy might also arise, but again those are nothing new to Paganism, especially between degreed and egalitarian traditions. Some people would look up to professional clergy based on their credentials; others would not; just as happens with degreed Pagans now.
Fear that we would lose the essential intimacy of Paganism, our direct connection with the Divine, also come to nought. If the professional clergy members do not stay in line, Pagans will ignore them just as they have been ignoring “mainstream” clergy. Individuals could still deal with the Divine directly; professional clergy would merely add another dimension, such as a support role.
CLERGY’S ROLE
So the next main question is: “What can a professional clergy offer the Pagan community?’
First, it would offer the community a group of people with skills in areas such as counseling, leadership, conduction of rituals, healing, education, etc, on whom individuals and groups could call at need. Their registration would provide a list of names and locations so that they may be contacted easily. This would allow Pagans to enjoy many of the same spiritual privileges available to “mainstream” religions: the right to call on a priestess/priest of one’s own faith while dying, or in a hospital, to preside over funerals or weddings and baptisms to provide counseling after the loss of a loved one, to teach children about spirituality, and so on.
It would also lend Paganism greater credibility with “mainstream” organisations, including government, and allow us to present a united front, which would make it so much harder for non-Pagans to dismiss our spirituality as inconsequential. As things stand, Pagans face unfair discrimination in areas where a professional clergy would make all the difference, as through them all Pagans would have official representation and recognition.
I find it somewhat strange that people argue so much over this issue when in effect we already have professional clergy in the Pagan community; they just do not enjoy the “advantages” of official recognition. As things stand now, for example with the official appointment of designated Religious Marriage Officers (RMOs) for the SAPC, SAPRA, etc, and their registration at Home Affairs, Pagans in SA can preside over legally binding weddings - that makes them “official” clergy, yet the Pagan community still continues to argue over professional and ordained spiritual leaders.
We even have some organisations and individuals that offer seminary-type training for Pagans, and some already have their own established parameters for priestesses and priests. So some kind of organised clergy training is already taking place. As Pagans we must also take cognisance that ordained Pagan clergy and seminary training (especially Wiccan) does exist in other countries, and we should learn from our brothers and sisters who have managed to overcome many of the pitfalls that, thanks to them, the SA Pagan community might never have to face.
The local Pagan community already has many people who devote time and energy to help other Pagans cope with grief, sort out their lives, learn new crafts, present workshops, act as public representatives, mentoring, etc, and who for all practical purposes already serve as clergy. These people may or may not hold credentials of any kind, and most of them receive no payment for their efforts; they simply do what needs to be done. These people are in fact “functional clergy”.
Two questions regarding Pagan clergy that come up most often are official recognition and payment. Who should set requirements and issue credentials for Pagan clergy? Who would be eligible? Should professional clergy be paid? If so, who should pay them and how much? Etc, etc…
Before anyone panic regarding an all-encompassing clergy, I want to say that I do not think that a so-called “universal Pagan clergy” is even possible. The Pagan community is far too diverse for that type of consensus. At best, we can hope for a “decentralised clergy”.
That said, I think one of the most workable option would offer training and certification for professional Pagan clergy through new or established Pagan churches and representative organisations. Each tradition could set its own requirements and standards for qualification. Applicants could even take credit for knowledge gained elsewhere. Some Pagan bodies might offer honorary credentials to those who already have demonstrated their ability as spiritual guides, and who do not need a certification course. Others might offer a general certification with specialisation by denomination within a tradition, or skills: Priestess/Priest of Wicca (Gardnerian, Alexandrian, Dianic, etc) or Eclectic Priestess/Priest (Asatru, Shamanism, Stregheria, etc) or Pagan Priestess/Priest (weddings, counseling, initiations, divination, etc). This would preserve the autonomy and diversity of our many traditions.
PAYMENT
The objection to payment for Pagan clergy largely stems from a strong belief in many traditions that money should never be involved in spiritual matters. I certainly acknowledge this as a valuable spiritual principle. However, an equally viable principle concerns the conservation and exchange of energy - that for everything you receive, you should give something in return, and that what you do returns to you in some form.
A compromise would be to avoid cash transactions, and offer gifts of food, other goods or even services. Another solution would be for a Non-Profit Organisation to hire professional Pagan clergy as staff. For instance, a Pagan school might pay for clergy to teach children’s classes in their tradition, to maintain a Pagan library, a group might hire Pagan priests and priestesses to provide counseling, survivor support, and related services upon request.
While I do believe in some form of remuneration for services rendered, I would not want to see any kind of fee required for the formal ordination of Pagan clergy - this should not be something that can be bought. It should remain within reach of anyone who feels the calling to serve and has the dedication to go through the training.
A training programme does costs money, but the funds should not be raised from existing structures, raise the funds from somewhere else - donations; Pagan fairs; the sale of handcrafted goods, oils, candles, soaps, etc. I also think trainees should not have to pay a fee, but should pay for materials used during their training. Keep the door of opportunity open to all.
Of course, even if the Pagan community does accept some professional clergy, not all Pagans will acknowledge them, but surely we should have professional Pagan clergy available to those people who do indeed desire or need their services.
A priestess/priest, and even elders, should be clergy in every sense of the word. The position carries with it the responsibility for seeing to the spiritual needs of the community, and in assisting Pagans through the mundane crises of their lives. Being clergy is more than just leading a ritual. It is sitting at the bedside of someone who has just been diagnosed with an incurable disease; it is helping someone get through the funeral of a loved one; it is helping a suicidal person; it is hugging a child or woman who has been abused; it is trying to get someone into a detox centre; and it is smiling at someone who simply needs a warm and reassuring smile.
I believe that the time has come for us as Pagans to evolve and begin to be a bit more organised in how we will proceed into the future. How and in what form this will take place will depend on the South African Pagan community. A steady first step would perhaps be for us to set our own definition of what it is to be clergy - we need to break free of the mental image we have of clergy in other religions.
* “A spiritual guide feels with the heart and listen with the spirit.”
(Sources for this article include works by: Judy Harrow (HPS, Proteus Coven), 1998; Gwyneth Cathyl-Harrow, M.Sc. (Coven of the Stone and Mirror); Lark (1996); Jon “Athrawon” Edens (2005); and the article “Vested Interest: The Pros and Cons of Pagan Clergy” (author unknown); Ordained Clergy in Hellenion: An Exploration by Drew Campbell (2001);
Beliefnet.com, WitchVox and Wikipedia.)
Non-specfic priests
Thu, 10/02/2008 - 14:47 — AronI'm a huge one for formality, however I also strongly believe that all people should follow their own paths. But Erebos has raised other definitions which should be addressed.
I do not think that anyone has the right to determine whether or not someone is a priest/ess, but the SAPC can say that they recognise the abilities of certain individuals. These abilities have nothing to do with belief, but instead training in vital skills. A sample list of skills could be:
Counselling
Medical Attention (First Aid, we need not be doctors)
Moderation and Mediation
As is clear these are not specific to a belief system but are what are expected by any other religion of their clergy; also when these skills are called for they should not be done by someone untrained. If a person can show that they have been trained in these skills (though it would be up to the council to create a full list) then the SAPC can recognise them as a SAPC certified priest. This distances priest/esses from the need for "official" recognition, while still providing a channel for it.
What I would like to stress is that the recognition of the SAPC should not effect an individual's participation in government or rituals (hand fasting, funerals etc). All it does is confirm that there are people who can provide certain services expected of the priesthood of any other faith, obviously these individuals would have a faith and anyone of faith can perform the other functions of a clergy.
This does raise the question of how the competence in these skills should be determined. But I think that we should agree on that such a system should be in place first.
Clergy et al...
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 16:29 — AureliusWhat needs to be understood is that if we are going to get involved with NGO's and government programmes, we need to get organised, and this does not imply "organised religion". It simply means ORGANISED.
How can you attend an MRM function and say to the Christian Reverend from the Methodist Church that you are "nothing" because titles don't please you? Is this how our Pagan forefathers conducted themselves? I don't think so, they were held in the highest esteem.
If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion...
I am not a Priest, a Reverend, A tenth degree whatever - the word "I" is loaded well enough without the extra embellishments. But that is just my humble opinion.
Whenever I have been at MRM functions, I was automatically addressed as "Priest Martin", this suits me just fine. It has no negative connotations, it is a term not confined to any religious denomination and it suits Pagans very well because we are all priests/priestesses in our own rights, as were our ancestors.
I humbly propose that for "official" or "organised" purposes we call ourselves "priests" or "priestesses".
BB
Aurelius
For those of you running
Sat, 09/27/2008 - 08:44 — AriasAfriKaFor those of you running this thread, you may wish to answer some questions on other forums such as http://forums.wayoftherede.com/general-discussions/professional-pagan-cl...
BB
A
thanks...
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 18:30 — AureliusBut no thanks. Prefer to answer them here where it's pertinent.
BB
Aurelius
PART 2
Thu, 09/25/2008 - 12:17 — ErebosGreetings,
This is basically Part 2 of "In the footsteps of our ancestors".
In this section I discuss various views regarding Pagan clergy.
Brightest Blessings
Phos Erebos
Hi there Erebos and
Sat, 09/27/2008 - 06:20 — AriasAfriKaHi there Erebos and all,
Turu and I are going through the related articles and once we've managed to discuss things, I'd like to post some thoughts here too - one question in the meantime though for Luke, Morgause, Erebos, everyone here: what, in your personal opinions, are the ultimate goals of having a professional clergy? I ask this as I get the feeling that the goal goes far beyond what is being currently discussed or what has been referred to.
Arias & Turu
goals
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 18:28 — AureliusHi Arias
Personally, I want to see us get a little more organised and involved with Government projects like the MRM. It's a little difficuilt to go to an MRM meeting where they call you a priest or pastor and then tell them:
"Oh no please, I'm nothing. I don't recognise priests and clergy because I'm still trying to dust my Christian chip off my shoulder".
This is real life, let's get with it. If you want to play Soccer with Soccer Players, you need to be a Soccer Player yourself.
This is not about power, control, ordination etc. We have people who claim all sorts of fancy titles, lineages, immense powers and wondrous abilities. Great, let's put such claims under the spotlight and list them. If anyone objects to the claims, put it in writing and clear the air.
We need honorable clergy out there to show the politico/spiritual face of our belief. To take our place at the many Government initiatives that are ongoing. We are in the dark and being kept there by fundemental religions.
It's time to take our religion back to where it was two thousand years ago- up front, decent, moral and in your face.
BB
Aurelius
Convener
DIALOGUE THAT'S ALL
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 19:35 — ErebosInter-community dialogue should be pro-active, which is the only reason why I compiled the temple and clergy articles. The suppositions - which is all that these articles offer - presented in those two postings are meant to facilitate debate and reflection.
And they are indeed
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 08:32 — Damon LeffAnd they are indeed facilitating debate and reflection, thank you Erebos. :)
Hi Arias
Sat, 09/27/2008 - 14:01 — Damon LeffI was reminded that the definition of Clergy is...
...the generic term used to describe the formal religious leadership within a given religion. The term comes from Greek (a lot, that which is assigned by lot (allotment) or metaphorically, heritage) and includes people such as ministers, priests and rabbis, who are trained to officiate at religious ceremonies and services.
Given this definition I'd say the prerogative to ordain clergy (religious leadership) remains with each individual Pagan denominational path. Wiccans, Asatruans, Druids, etc. appoint their own clergy according to the dictates of their individual paths and traditions.
The functions of clergy within each Pagan path or tradition varies widely.
It would help if you shared your own perspective on the role of clergy within your own tradition / path.
It doesn't sound like the
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 07:57 — AriasAfriKaIt doesn't sound like the SAPC to want to actually "ordain" the clergy - my understanding (however possibly faulty) is that it aught to be an elected group of already ordained Priests and Priestesses - am I on the right track?
BB
A
I don't know. :) That's
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 09:26 — Damon LeffI don't know. :) That's something SAPC members will have to decide on.
After discussing this proposal with several Pagans I'm of the opinion that a Pagan Clergy Directory (including the names and contact details of all Pagan religious leaders - clergy) is a better idea.
A Pagan Clergy Directory will respect the autonomy of established groups and traditions whilst promoting equal opportunity for all traditions / paths, without setting up any form of controlling SAPC Pagan clergy body.
Most of the Pagans I've spoken with are dead set against the formation of any controlling SAPC Pagan clergy body.
While I accept both the need
Fri, 09/26/2008 - 10:05 — Damon LeffWhile I accept both the need for and the right of Pagans of various denominational paths to seek to entrench a system of clergy (using your definition above) for their particular path, as a Witch, I see little need for clergy.
I already serve the national Pagan community and both my insular Pagan and general non-Pagan community as diviner, magic worker, spiritual guide, environmental-, social- and human rights activist. I do not require clergy status in order to continue to do what I do.
My Clan and its Coven have no need for clergy or religious hierarchy simply because each member already fulfills the roles and functions described in your definition of clergy
We neither proselytize nor preach any gospel and so have no need of clergy in that sense either. Witches do not need intercessors. We are the intercessors.
Given my personal opinion on this subject I cannot vote either for or against the SAPC's support for professional Pagan clergy.
I will however repeat my initial statement. I accept both the need for and the right of Pagans of various denominational paths to seek to entrench a system of clergy for their particular path.
A question posed by Ginney
Fri, 09/26/2008 - 14:23 — Damon LeffA question posed by Ginney in response to the question:
"Do you personally support a proposal to establish and support a formal and professional Pagan clergy?"
"Does this mean
1) start a formal training program for those who want to be clergy? or
2) form a directory/ board/ council of those who already have formal clergy training ?" Ginney May
A good question. The Clergy poll simply asks:
"Should the SAPC support professional Pagan Clergy?"
In what form?
If the SAPC is going to train and ordain its own Pagan clergy, what model of clergy is going to become standard and what standard of eduction will be prescribed?
If the SAPC is merely going to compose a directory of already ordained clergy in order to offer them financial and other support, who determines qualification requirements and what would those be? Or do we list and support all who claim to be clergy without verification?
Ginney's question attempts to determine the context within which the SAPC is proposing supporting Pagan clergy.
Answers
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 17:56 — AureliusGreetings all
Personally, I have no fixed ideas regarding these matters, I am just as much an anarchist and spiritual seeker as the next Pagan. Someone, I forget who, once said that he is a a non religious human seeking a religious experience, I really like that.
However, I firmly believe that it is to our common good to get organised to some degree. This is already happening. As far as I am concerned we already have official clergy, namely all those who registered at Home Affairs as RMO's.
Nominated by groups and registered. The SAPC does have an interview system and code of conduct in place, it is innofensive and grants total autonomy. I do not believe that the diverse Pagan paths can and should be regulated, we can however be "organised". This is fundementally where I would like to see things going - a united and organised front, keeping the special uniqueness that defines the separate paths.
The SAPC could therefore put together a (as suggested) "directory" of clergy based on certain criteria. The criteria is a minefield. However, comments made to date show me that the SA Pagan community has matured at a spectacular rate - despite all the doom and gloom the "old guard" High Priestesses etc keep preaching, I believe that as long as our intentions are honorable and virtuous, we can succeed.
BB
Aurelius
INVITATION TO DEBATE - NOT DICTATION
Sun, 09/28/2008 - 20:16 — MorgauseSalve Everybody
Erebos wrote two excellent and thought-provoking articles. What astounds me is how so many have jumped to conclusions.
The wording of the Poll is as follows:
Should the SAPC support Professional Pagan Clergy?
• Nowhere does is mention the training of clergy by the SAPC.
We happen to be of the opinion that we already have designated Religious Marriage Officers who are registered with Home Affairs.
• The SAPC certainly does not wish to ordain clergy. Personally I don’t like the word “professional” as it already has some talking about salaried clergy which is not part of the “vision” and certainly not my reason for sharing in it. My service to the Goddess is not salaried but a mere grateful commitment.
• A Pagan Clergy Directory (containing names and contact details) is more what I had envisaged, respecting the autonomy of the different traditions and diverse groups, promoting equality of all and without the exclusion of solitaries who might also wish to register as RMO’s through the SAPC.
• No Pagan controlling body was ever intended.
Should the SAPC build a Pagan Temple?
Some members of the SAPC (Lunaguardia) have already assisted the Tamil Community build their temple in Nelspruit. This was part of the Project Hypatia and Pagan inter-faith and community service in the Mpumalanga Province
This question is not aimed at the building of a “die moeder kerk” as some of the panic and apprehensive commentary on other “forums” indicates. Every Pagan should already have his/her temple within their home, garden, covenstead or outside in Mother Nature. The Pagan Temple mentioned here refers to Erebos’ idea and vision, which I personally support. It is meant to be one of many which could be built across South Africa, in your living room, in a grove, on a mountain top, a piece of land purchased or donated for this purpose.
I ask that we all read Erebos’ articles carefully and do not get caught in emotive responses. We are discussing building bridges, of adding value to Paganism and Pagan interaction with society, not at proselytizing or taking away, or limiting your freedom in any way.
It is an invitation to debate; not the dictation of “way-forward” policy.
BB
Morgause Fonteleve
SAPC Registrar
P.S. - We are a small religious minority and salaried clergy is simply not an economically viable hypothesis.
No-one is dictating a
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 08:29 — Damon LeffNo-one is dictating a way-forward policy. What we are doing is discussing the subject thoroughly, hence all the questions that have come to light since this subject was posted. :)
No-one has jumped to any conclusions.
We are debating the options and variables, as members of the SAPC have been invited to do.
We cannot vote yes or no until we understand the parameters of the question put to us, namely:
Should the SAPC support Professional Pagan Clergy?
What clergy? Whose clergy? How will the SAPC define clergy? What kind of support will this be exactly?
I took this question to Pagans off-list to discuss it in order for me to make up my own mind on this subject. :)
Thank you Aurelius and
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 06:10 — AriasAfriKaThank you Aurelius and Morgause for your responses; however I still don't know if the actual goal has been established; something that I think is of great importance.
"it is to our common good to get organised" and create "a united and organised front"
but to what exact end?
Please note that I am not being difficult here, just edging toward a direction in discussion that I believe should help us in our decision making processes.
Arias
goals......
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 08:03 — AureliusHi Arias
Please refer to my earlier reply regarding goals.
The goal that I envisage is to take our rightful place amongst secular religions through mechanisms such as the MRM. I am sure others will have further ideals, some of which have been mentioned.
BB
Luke
And I support that yes, but
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 08:39 — Damon LeffAnd I support that yes, but it is important to note that the MRM does not require one to be clergy in order to participate in and with MRM.
Just as it is not required for RMO's to be clergy.
Should we, in taking our rightful place amongst other religions, conform to their standard model of religion?
I'm not arguing, just debating.
TESTING THE WATERS
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 14:54 — ErebosGreetings all,
I think that one of the greatest problems we all seem to be having with this debate, is the exact meaning of clergy.
The clergy article ends with the following words: "A steady first step would perhaps be for us to set our own definition of what it is to be clergy - we need to break free of the mental image we have of clergy in other religions."
As Pagans, I am glad to say, I doubt very much that we could conform - even if we tried :) - to the standard model of other religions.
What I think is important to remember is that the temple and clergy articles are just that articles - a collection of ideas.
Even more important, is that the polls are just that polls. These polls are here to test the proverbial waters, they are not the final process leading to a decision, merely the first "babystep'.
"It takes a lot of courage to release the familiar and seemingly secure, to embrace the new. But there is no real security in what is no longer meaningful. There is more security in the adventurous and exciting, for in movement there is life, and in change there is power." - Alan Cohen
Oh it's not the first time
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 16:47 — Damon LeffOh it's not the first time this subject has been debated Erebos. :) I've been around long enough to see this subject resurface again and again.
I do understand that the function of clergy in Paganism is not the same as it would be in any other religion.
In the last 10 years or so S.A. Pagans have started using the title Reverend - some neo-Wicca groups even adding a fourth "clergy degree" - simply to appear more "respectable" and conformist to societal mores - clergy being closer to God and all that. :)
In fact however, I believe they have forgotten that every single Pagan is a 'priest or priestess' in the sense that we all seek personal communion with the Mysteries.
The premise I disagree with is that Pagans need a 'clergy' class in order to interact with other religious leaders in inter-faith dialogue.
In my world-view all Pagans are clergy. We seek to know the Divine personally / mystically, not receive the words of the Divine through the mediation of another. This difference in approach is far more pronounced amongst Witches who do not self-define as Wiccan.
In the Pagan context then, clergy does not just mean Pagan religious leaders, it means every Pagan, including solitaries.
I know - radical. :)
Definition
Mon, 09/29/2008 - 16:41 — MorgauseThe concise Oxford Dictionary: "Priest/ess" amongst the many definitions I found this little gem "Official minister of non-Christian religion"
BB
Morgause
SAPC Registrar
Clergy
Sat, 01/03/2009 - 06:57 — RainbadgerIt seems to me, that the Founding Clergy has already been formed!
Much like our modern day "Body Corporates", the Clergy would need to be made up of people who take an active interest in where the SAPC is going and how its going to get there. There would need to be a decision making "machine" requiring a minimum of three clergy members for quorum to take place.
I believe those people have already manifested themselves namely,
Erebos, Aron, Aurelius, Damon Leff, Morgause, AriasAfrika.
Anyone else who wishes to become part of the Founding Clergy would have to submit some form of resume' or be recommended by fellow Pagans who believe that he/she has what it takes to be their representing clergy member.
Bright Blessings,
Rainbadger